#twisted wonderland episode 7 part 12 spoilers
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raven-at-the-writing-desk ¡ 2 days ago
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quick question- I was a bit confused in some dialogue during book 1 lol 😭😭 It’s during the later chapters when riddle has collared both ace and deuce after they’ve challenged him for his seat. More specifically, the part where yuu calls riddle out for his behavior (rightfully so) and he responds by insulting them and their parents I believe?
The confusion stems from aceyuu shippers (just wanted to clarify I’m not self shipping lmao) where they say ace ends up punching riddle because he’s explicitly defending yuu’s honor or whatever but i also see other people (non-shippers) who say ace punched riddle because he insulted ace and/or deuce’s parents? Im not quite sure which one it is and went back in the actual game to check but i feel like the wording of riddle’s insults is a bit vague? Idk, maybe im just being a bit of a dum dum and can’t properly comprehend the scene even though it’s quite simple. I feel like it’s also just because i see a lot of people saying different stuff and just wanted to hear your thoughts on it if that’s okay?
I just feel like you really understand both the story and characters in that regard haha
P.S. your posts r genuinely very informative and helpful especially for people like me who kinda have no media literacy (not in a negative way!!) pls keep up the good work you’re rlly great at it <333
Hmmm, I see 🤔
Before I get to responding to this question, I want to preface this with a few disclaimers! Firstly, I do not mean to invalidate or detract from Ace x Yuu shippers or anyone who may interpret their relationship as romantic. You should ship what you like and have fun doing it. My reply aims to be more objective, but that should NOT impede on your enjoyment or whatever it is you choose to ship. Secondly, for those who don’t ship Ace x Yuu, I will be discussing the pairing later on in this post, so please keep this in mind.
Let's first look at how the game and how it depicts the scene. This occurs in 1-22, shortly after Riddle collars Ace and Deuce in their duel for the dorm leader seat. With his victory secured, Riddle begins to gloat about how this is proof that he is "the most correct". At this point, Yuu/the player character is granted two dialogue options:
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If you choose "But that's not right!", Riddle replies with, "I am the one who decides what is wrong and right! What sort of pitiful education have you received, that you cannot follow such simple rules?"
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If you choose "You can't just use rules to do whatever you please!", then Riddle replies with, "If there were no penalties, no one would follow the rules. I have to wonder what sort of pitiful education left you unable to comprehend so simple a concept."
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However, no matter which dialogue option you choose, Riddle continues on to say, "Clearly, you were born to parents with no great magical capability. And as a result... You lack even the basic education necessary to attend a school such as this. It's quite sad."
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Deuce becomes upset after hearing this--but before he is able to act, Ace is already on his feet and manages to deck his dorm leader in the face.
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Based on the fact that Riddle seems to react to something that Yuu says, the framing here implies that the "you" Riddle is using refers to them specifically. As you can see above, both Ace and Deuce take offense to what Riddle says, but it is Ace that acts preemptively and attacks Riddle for his rudeness. This is what Ace x Yuu shippers will point to as a defining moment in their relationship (though, to be clear, this scene can definitely also be interpreted as platonic!!).
… Buuut it’s not completely clear that Riddle is explicitly directing any and all insults towards Yuu and Yuu alone, even if Yuu was the one to prompt his tirade. Due to the visual novel style format of the game, we have limited assets to base our interpretations off of, so going by the game alone may not be entirely accurate to what is happening in this scene. For example, we don't know how the characters are oriented relative to one another. It's possible that Riddle responds to Yuu's dialogue and then turns away to berate Yuu, Ace, and Deuce for their stupidity, since all three of them are, in his eyes, rule-breakers. We simply cannot tell due to the constraints of a visual novel. Let’s consult the manga adaptation and see how that presents 1-22.
In the Episode of Heartslabyul, the framing of the panels centers Riddle and Adeuce; Yuuken is not involved whatsoever. (On a prior page, all Yuuken remarks on is how fast Riddle is able to cast his spell; Yuuken has no lines similar to game!Yuu’s earlierdialogue options.) Riddle stands imposing over his opponents and rants at Ace and Deuce about their lack of an education. You can see that it really strikes a nerve with Deuce (whom we learned used to be a delinquent prior to NRC). This still results in Yuu punching Riddle.
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The manga seems to imply that Riddle is not insulting Yuu, but rather Adeuce. This makes sense to me, given that though all of them are rebels to Heartslabyul’s strict rules, Adeuce are the two who most directly challenge his authority.
You can see in a close-up panel that Deuce is gritting his teeth and trying to hold himself back from going at Riddle. The text in that panel involves the mention of parents who cannot use magic—which just so happens to be true of Deuce’s mother. The same mother that he worked so hard to make proud of, the mother he turned over a new leaf for. But again, it’s Ace that gets the hit in. Why is that?
Let’s check out our final source, the first volume of the light novel. On pages 319 and 320:
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Riddle very clearly states “And as for you two.” This clearly refers to the fallen Ace and Deuce. He then unleashes his barrage of insults at them. Again, not at Yuu, but at Ace and Deuce. The text even goes on to remind us that Deuce would be especially rattled by Riddle’s words because of how he had come to NRC for the sake of his mom. In this version, we see our Yuu (Yuuya) being more involved by trying to keep Deuce from lashing out. Like in the game, however, Ace still gets in that punch on his dorm leader.
Okay, so… The game, manga, and light novels are different iterations of the same base story. Based on which you consume, you could walk away with an entirely different understanding of the scene in question. The game, being the most interactive medium with a self-insert main character, a gacha game which makes $$$ from endearing the characters to us, has the set-up which is most conducive for yumeshipping and thus making the player feel beloved and important in 1-22. This is obvious if you also consider that many fanservicey lines from other parts of the game (such as Ace wanting to sleep in Yuu’s room) being left out of the manga. It's also entirely possible that Riddle first reacts to what Yuu says, and THEN shifts his attention to address the group rather than just Yuu. The manga, with a more standoffish and level-headed Yuu, doesn’t speak up like game!Yuu does, so Riddle instead directly insults Ace and Deuce. The light novel, which features a timid and non-confrontational Yuu, is focused on deescalating the situation. And, like the manga, the light novel is NOT interactive and so it doesn’t need to concern itself with making the player feel special. Riddle isn’t mandated to acknowledge Yuu; he can instead be mad at Ace and Deuce all he likes.
If we were to combine information from across the game, manga, and light novel to decipher what is “truly” happening, here’s how I see it!
The light novel contains a scene exclusive to it on pages 176 and 177. As Ace is making himself comfortable at Ramshackle, he formally apologizes to Yuuya for being mean to him in the prologue. Ace explains that his meanness was because he thought that Yuuya had bullied his way to be admitted to NRC under special circumstances. “[…] the rest of us had to work our butts off to get in, and you just sorta walked in.” He proclaims that this was unfair, so it annoyed him.
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This makes a lot of sense for Ace’s character. In book 7 of the main story, he expresses that he is insecure about being an ordinary mage and that he hadn’t even developed his UM yet. He calls himself lame and pathetic, someone who is always looking for an excuse to take the easy way out. This is in spite of the bravado he puts on and how he often brags about being better or smarter than Deuce (most notably in book 5). If we believe the light novel dialogue, Ace worked hard to get invited to NRC. He has pride in earning this, and he has something to prove while he is there. Recall that his older brother is an alumnus of the school, and that his own father is a magicless human. Ace canonically has a good relationship with both of these family members and often bonds with them through little things like card trick competitions. When Riddle insults Ace's background... he is also insulting Ace's brother and father. He is also insulting all the effort Ace put forth to get into NRC in the first place. Ace would of course lose it--especially when he has been the primary victim of Riddle's rage for most of book 1. He's the first to be collared, the one who had to apologize and attempted to make an apology tart (which got rejected). Bro's fed UP having to bend the knee to a tyrant and sick of watching everyone else do the same. The punch that comes out of it seems to me like the result of all Ace's pent-up frustrations, as well as his own fury at Riddle speaking ill of him and his family.
While Ace is unquestionably willing to ride or die for Yuu in books 4 (he takes a long public transit route from the Queendom to Sage's Island after receiving a SOS text from them) and 6 (he tries to protect his friends from Ferrymen)... I think book 1's a bit too early for him to be SO loyal to Yuu that he'd get this angry on their behalf and sock Riddle. (Book 1 takes place during the first week of school; Ace seems to have only known Yuu for a few days at this point + hasn't really hung out with them besides sleeping over at Ramshackle since he's not allowed back at Heartslabyul.) His punch definitely feels fueled by a bunch of other things rather than being extremely motivated to defend Yuu's honor. I think maybe a case could be made for the game specifically, since that's the only version where Yuu is potentially addressed rather than Ace and Deuce being addressed. However, this does take some extrapolation. You'd have to assume that Ace is actually very attached to Yuu this early on or pair it with the idea that Ace is sensitive about magicless humans in general being discriminated against because of his own father being magicless (ie Ace was insulted by proxy, even if Riddle might have aimed the comments at Yuu). Not sure if the latter argument holds up very well though, considering that Ace himself did discriminate against Yuu in the prologue because they lacked magic. Likewise, he doesn't get mad for Fellow and Gidel in Playful Land when they share about being looked down on for not being magically inclined. But hey, maybe that was just Ace being in denial and acting contrary in order to cope with his own complicated feelings on the topic. He’s been known to behave like this anyway, acting cocky despite having no UM and denying that Yuu would go home (even though we later find out he deeply does not wish for this to happen).
I definitely think that many of the game-exclusive lines and content are there as fanservice for the players, who are encouraged to project or to self-insert as Yuu. Ace in particular is one of the characters who gets a ton of this kind of yumejoshi bait-y stuff. Everyone has it to some extent, but Ace is one of the rare few who has several pretty overt instances in the main story (whereas most other characters have their fanservice content relegated to voice lines and maybe some events). On top of this scene (which could potentially read as "Ace defending Yuu's honor"), we have: multiple instances of Ace offering to share a room/bed with Yuu (once in book 1, again in book 3), he has shared his number with Yuu and invites them to call him if they "miss him", Ace's entire book 7 dream revolving around a reality in which Yuu is able to freely traverse between Twisted Wonderland and their original world (furthermore, he is the ONLY dreamer we have seen in which Yuu is involved in the dream), etc. Ace is also known to frequently tease Yuu, and, on top of having several voice lines inviting them to hang out, is actually shown hanging out with them and caring about them in various vignettes and events. For example, he has movie nights with Yuu (Idia's Labwear vignettes), asks for their opinion on whether or not he looks the part to woo the Ghost Bride, rides roller coasters with them in Playful Land while previously complaining that his ex-girlfriend wouldn’t, and worries for where Yuu might be (Endless Halloween Night). With this abundance of Ace and Yuu content, I can see why people that have the shipping goggles on--and even those who don't--might interpret early scenes as Ace acting out for Yuu's sake, be it romantically or platonically. More objectively speaking and when considering the manga + light novel though, I don't think I personally read 1-22 that way. I enjoy Ace as a character and I support Ace x Yuu shippers, but the evidence and context suggests that he's venting other frustrations to me.
Again though, this is just my interpretation. Feel free to use this information however you’d like and come to your own conclusion.
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egophiliac ¡ 10 days ago
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don't think I'm not still obsessing over 7-12
#art#twisted wonderland#twisted wonderland spoilers#twisted wonderland episode 7 spoilers#twisted wonderland book 7 spoilers#twisted wonderland episode 7 part 12 spoilers#twisted wonderland book 7 part 12 spoilers#sorry it's even scribblier than usual :') hopefully my chickenscratch is legible#anyway come here and join me in the corner where we go to be embarrassing about anime characters#just. between riddle and trey's dreams i've been thinking a lot about how#trey knew this kid for like two months when he was nine and then never really got over him or how their friendship ended#which. honestly. understandable given the circumstances#and then when they finally met again riddle acted like they'd never met before and neither he nor trey ever intended trey to be his vice#but every time riddle talks about his childhood post-incident it's basically#'oh yeah i constantly thought about trey and che'nya and fantasized about still being friends with them! this is fine and normal'#(there's a bit in one of his birthday cards where he talks about crossword puzzles and shit man that one got me)#idk. i can't put this into words very well#just...the implications that riddle was actively resisting trey's friendship#(presumably because it ended SUPER badly last time and he's learned that if he shows he wants something it gets taken away from him)#and trey had to work REALLY hard to just to get to the point they were at by the time canon starts#that was progress somehow#y'all can call him boring all you want but trey's defining feature really is that he keeps being like#'everything's fine :) this isn't a big deal :) i don't care that much'#(trey on the inside: THIS IS THE BIGGEST DEAL THAT I CARE SO MUCH ABOUT AND I WILL NEVER LET IT GO)#anyway i continue to be absolutely murdered by the timing of riddlepunzel directly after this#riddle's line about not wanting to keep standing in front of a door that's never going to open...#hey. hey silly gacha game about anime disney boys.#you are not actually allowed to do this to me#oh shit oh damn i'm out of tags and i haven't even talked about cater yet. NO BUT I HAVE LOTS OF FEELINGS THERE TOO --#(i am crushed under a falling safe looney tunes style)
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egophiliac ¡ 19 days ago
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looking at next month's schedule and between the end of 7-12 and the wishing lantern event it's like
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February is officially RIDDLE MONTH, brace yourselves to be absolutely blasted into ashes everybody
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egophiliac ¡ 8 days ago
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once again, don't think I'm not still obsessing over 7-12
(eventually I will get back to being less scribbly, whoops)
#art#twisted wonderland#twisted wonderland spoilers#twisted wonderland episode 7 spoilers#twisted wonderland book 7 spoilers#twisted wonderland episode 7 part 12 spoilers#twisted wonderland book 7 part 12 spoilers#oh cater. cater cater cater.#i'm so sorry but riddle is the absolute funniest person to look at and be like#'actually yeah i think this is good. let's stick with this one.'#no it's great it's amazing cater is amazing actually#guy who has never had a long-term friendship in his life 🤝 other guy who has never had a long-term friendship in his life#those two guys 🤝 third guy who sees the hollow voids inside them and immediately goes 'i need to fill that with food'#in this house we heart the heart senpais#fucking love how freaked out cater was by punk riddle#who is this. this is not his jousama. :(#(i do think one of the things cater likes about riddle is that he looks like he should act really cute but he is in fact A Bastard)#(a riddle who enthusiastically calls him caykun and is just kinda adorable is wrong on an intrinsic level)#cater once they hit the second level of dreaming: okay he's actively trying to kill us but at least i know how to deal with this#god. the hug. i'm not okay#that said i can't wait until after episode 7 when it finally occurs to riddle to ask what their dreams were#cater: oh uh...you know. :) stuff :)#trey: oh mine was actually -- cater what are you doing. put the teapot down.#(the rest of this scene has been redacted for everyone's benefit)
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egophiliac ¡ 2 months ago
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this is the moment that broke me
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egophiliac ¡ 22 days ago
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YO TREY CLOVER IS HERE !!!
TREY NOOOO you weren't supposed to look so cool, I was supposed to be able to save my keys for all the upcoming birthdays, how could you do this to me --
also hey. hey Trey. what's in that bowl.
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egophiliac ¡ 14 days ago
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he did it! he was so scared but HE DID IT!!!!! I'M SO PROUD OF HIM
(spoiler header because I drew this in an absolute fugue state immediately after I finished playing, and it's...probably more immediately spoilery than usual, whoops)
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egophiliac ¡ 11 days ago
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So.... what are your thoughts on Ace's UM, if you haven't been asked this already?
sneaky magic for the sneakiest boy
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no but really, I think it fits him really well! I had thought his UM would probably involve something kinda sleight-of-handy or pickpockety! and I looooved that it made such a nice loop-around back to episode 1. ❤️ I was. kind of half-expecting him to just run out and punch Riddle in the nose again. but instead this time 'twas he who offed the queen's head! it was great! and he did it while stone-cold terrified out of his mind! because Ace is the only remotely normal or well-adjusted person at NRC and therefore the only one who is like "we're going to literally die, this is super effed up". but he did it anyway!!!! I AM SO PROUD
#art#twisted wonderland#twisted wonderland spoilers#twisted wonderland episode 7 spoilers#twisted wonderland book 7 spoilers#twisted wonderland episode 7 part 12 spoilers#twisted wonderland book 7 part 12 spoilers#also love how it complements deuce's magic! they are two of a kind ❤️♠️#i do think bet the limit fits the 'uno reverse card' description more though#like...okay they haven't really said much on how joker snatch works#(literally ace went 'we'll talk about it later')#but i think it's not supposed to be inherently retaliatory if that makes sense#the japanese is something like 'put an ace up my sleeve'#which implies to me that it's not really an in-the-moment thing? i think he can steal it and hold on to it for a while probably#like he might be able to snatch it and then use it on someone else later rather than it being reflected back on the original caster#versus deuce's being that he punches you back with your own punch (and/or other various punches he's acquired)#(a connoisseur of fine punches)#i am 100% guessing though so who knows! we will find out later i presume#now the only one left to get their um is grim maybe 👀#(i mean i would also love to see some staff ums HEY TWST THAT WOULD BE COOL)#(but like. narratively speaking and all)#oh and maybe crowley's depending on how plot-important he actually ends up being#what if it turns out nothing's going on with crowley and he's actually completely irrelevant#he tears his mask off and he's just some random dude who has zero idea of what's happening#nobody's been orchestrating shit#everyone's just been getting radioactive poisoning from the stone adeuce replaced in the chandelier back in the prologue#this was all a cautionary tale about getting the blot levels in your school's hvac system regularly checked
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egophiliac ¡ 14 days ago
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The cut they did with the latest chapter...Malleus was straight up a HORROR VILLAIN IN THE BEST AND MOST TERRIFYING WAY EVER.
"You're 'awake', aren't you, Shroud?" CHILLS LITERAL CHILLS
now, let's be fair to Malleus, he started out very politely! a dainty little knock on Idia's door. graciously allow a couple of minutes to give him a chance to realize that his rebellion is futile and all shall succumb in the end. then, when that doesn't work, a firmer but still unquestionably mannerly knock. then just straight-up haunting his shit
honestly, there was a surprising amount of Twst trying out just a little bit of horror movie in this one! like. you're having a nice cup of tea one minute and then it turns into Alice in Wonderland Does The Cube. everything's red for some reason. your friend's mom is actually a mass of giant shrieking arms rising from the depths to drown you in an ocean of chamomile. this is all a precursor to being hunted as the most dangerous game throughout a labyrinth by dopplegangers of your best friends. what's going on, Twst. are you okay.
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#art#twisted wonderland#twisted wonderland spoilers#twisted wonderland episode 7 spoilers#twisted wonderland book 7 spoilers#twisted wonderland episode 7 part 12 spoilers#twisted wonderland book 7 part 12 spoilers#...this felt less tangential before i went to actually post it#my brain is all over the place right now i apologize#did very much appreciate how we cut from malleus' still quite polite knocking#and then when we finally cut back a few hours later idia still hasn't answered his door and the room is just SHAKING#malleus probably thinks he's still showing remarkable patience given the situation#anyway i do apologize for this again. for some reason silver going I PLAY THE OCARINA was ridiculously funny to me and i want it everywhere#i think just because we had an incredible superband for about thirty seconds there#i'm so sad we never got to hear any of them#just imagine it#like...okay we do know cater knows how to play guitar#(the light music club tends to be portrayed as more 'enthusiastic' than 'good' but to be fair that's probably mostly lilia's fault)#and then riddle on vocals and che'nya on bass#having not actually experienced any of their playing the actual quality of which is anyone's guess#meanwhile adeuce are doing interpretative dance over in the corner#ortho is delightedly pressing buttons on a soundboard with no regard as to audio harmony#sebek is sawing away at a violin with immense gusto and absolutely zero skill#and in the back there's silver just dead-facedly piping away on his ocarina like the weird little forest nymph he is#why no i still haven't gotten any sleep. too busy thinking about how much i really want deuce to actually ask riddle about his pet dog.#i want this to be the new running joke that deuce never figures out
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egophiliac ¡ 20 days ago
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YEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHH
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egophiliac ¡ 24 days ago
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Treys card is taking so long to come out, its making this January feel 10x longer (<tired trey fan) i wanna know what it is so bad
they haven't changed the January schedule (yet), so I assume it's gotta come out sometime later this week...? ( ᐕ ) which means we should be getting the Queen's Chef card announcement anywhere from "literally any minute now" to "January 31st, 11:59 PM JST". hold on lemme just manifest this real quick --
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(super fast drawings wooooooo)
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egophiliac ¡ 2 months ago
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Hi ego !! :D!! I love your arts !
I just want to ask something in twst cuz the new jp update…
Spoiler ( even tho it’s nothing serious..)
I just wanted to know about deuce real hair colors, cuz i know he dyed his hair before but i need to know if its was naturally blonde, or naturally dark-blue ??
Because i first thought it was blue but then the dreams thing in deuce part shows him with blonde and. I was like (???? Wasn’t he naturally dark blue??) and just.. my brain stopped braining ( i just don’t understand jps language, and English not my first language too so not all lot of sentences i can understand-)
thank you! :D
the blue is his natural color -- he says somewhere earlier in the story that back in his delinquent days, he would bleach his hair blonde (as a reference to the Japanese stereotype of delinquent teens having bleached hair). so him being blonde in the dream is a little visual sign that he's back in that mindset!
I get the confusion though, especially because Dilla has two-tone blonde/blue...I'm still not sure if that's her natural color or if she, like, also dyed her hair for some reason. misplaced solidarity, maybe...?
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egophiliac ¡ 2 months ago
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in regards to the latest main story update:
did twst finally find a question ("who would DJ?") where the funniest answer ISN'T Leona? or does he still beat out our beloved teapot tyrant? these are the real questions🤔
oh this is a STRONG contender, that's for sure! though after much deliberation, I think despite Riddle having the initial surprise factor, Leona still very slightly ekes out a win just because he would have to have been forced into it for whatever reason and he would NOT appreciate it. just picture how extremely sulky he'd be as he spins those hot tunes. it's so good.
I do acknowledge that this is a close debate and, perhaps, a contentious ruling! and to complicate matters further, should it please the court, I offer a third option:
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egophiliac ¡ 3 months ago
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I know we're not on the Hearts chapter but, I have a feeling the SSR will be Cater? But also him having the tear animation, since I have a feeling his dream will be a bit like Ruggie's q-q
I'm leaning towards either Cater or Ace, personally! Trey and Deuce have kinda already had their character arcs -- though someone else did mention to me that they thought it might be Trey, because so far all the vices have gotten one. though that might just be coincidence. we'll find out I guess!
my red-string-on-corkboard theory is that Ace is gonna get his arc + UM during whatever goes down with Grim, so while I could be completely wrong, I think it'd be nice if it were Cater's time to shine! ...also I am VERY curious as to what his dream is gonna be. 👀 like, I don't think he's gonna be all angsty or anything, he's a pretty cheery guy even though he pretends to be more vapid than he is, but...what would he be like if he were less. y'know.
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(also I kind of want him to get the focus just because I think it'd be a shame if all he got was a super-quick 'oh his dream is to have a billion followers or whatever, now let's go on to the next person'. c'mon Twst. give him some love.)
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egophiliac ¡ 3 months ago
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Do you have any final theories/desires for Book 7 Part 12?
(slamming fists on table) I DEMAND MORE CHE'NYA
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egophiliac ¡ 3 months ago
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OMG EGO HAVE YOU SEEN THE BOOK 7 CATER CARD YET
80s britpunk Cater is such an incredible direction to take. his Sid Vicious jacket! his little british police cap! I wouldn't have anticipated that going full-on Sex Pistols would be his alternate self but it is SO fitting actually. 😭
(also th-the crown symbol?! the gavel?! is housewarden Cater real because I will TRANSCEND --)
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